Focal TBE Installation

[Trompy]

After many weeks of waiting, i have finally received my Focal Berrylium Tweeter and Midrange 3w2. I have put a great deal of thinking on the installation. Because of the small size of the Mid i planned on installing it along with the TBE on the a-pillar just underneath of the TBE. I think Focal's Sugestion is putting the TBE in the a-pillar and the mid as close as possible. So i will aim the drivers tweeter towards the passenger and vice versa. But what about the mids?? Where should they be facing? Also is the tweeters aiming and installation the most suited for a two passenger Judging?

I would appreciate any opinion as the car (Opel Corsa) is used in competition and i want to make sure that before i begin any work i have as many ideas and propositions as possible!

[Paul]

most people aim the tweets (and I guess the mids too) perpendicualr to the windshield.

[Andy_Jones]

With a pillar mounted mids--unless you have a VW Bug or something similar with a very deep dash and very deep apillars--you are going to have a very difficult time getting a good vehicle for two seat judging. Just measure the path length differences between the spots you are thinking about. I'm willing to bet you are the 13-20" range of difference. You can correct that for one seat judging with time and amplitude alighnment, but for two seats--there is no fix for that.

If you want two seats, I would look to wherever gives you the smallest amount of pathlength differences (at least up to about 5khz--then you can worry about intensity).

[Trompy]

Originally Posted by Andy_Jones

With a pillar mounted mids--unless you have a VW Bug or something similar with a very deep dash and very deep apillars--you are going to have a very difficult time getting a good vehicle for two seat judging. Just measure the path length differences between the spots you are thinking about. I'm willing to bet you are the 13-20" range of difference. You can correct that for one seat judging with time and amplitude alighnment, but for two seats--there is no fix for that.

If you want two seats, I would look to wherever gives you the smallest amount of pathlength differences (at least up to about 5khz--then you can worry about intensity).

hmm the car is an opel corsa, couldnt say that it has a very deep dashboard.

When you say the smallest pathlength you mean beetween the two mids? the each side mid with its passenger?? Do you think Installing it at the mirror plastick would be better??? And facing where??

Also i would like to add that it is going to be almost in touch with the windshield. (i mean the back side of the Midrange box!! meaning that it is going to be as far as possible from the passengers).

[Trompy]

Originally Posted by Paul

most people aim the tweets (and I guess the mids too) perpendicualr to the windshield.

Meaning??? Facing towards the windshield?

[Andy_Jones]

In smaller vehicles you are generally looking at the kickpanel area.

Do this: take a tape measure and measure from where you want to mount the left midrange to the center of the driver's head rest. Then measure from the right midrange to the center of the driver's head rest. Subtract those two numbers. That is your pathlength difference (PLD). Do the same for the passenger seat (the PLD should be fairly similar to that of the driver's seat). For two seat judging you want as small a PLD as you can get. So start measuring different locations.

Without a dash and firewall rebuild, my gut tells me you will end up in the kickpanel area.


Now if you can compete in a class with just one seat judging---the above goes out the window (to some extent).

[Trompy]

Originally Posted by Andy_Jones

In smaller vehicles you are generally looking at the kickpanel area.

Do this: take a tape measure and measure from where you want to mount the left midrange to the center of the driver's head rest. Then measure from the right midrange to the center of the driver's head rest. Subtract those two numbers. That is your pathlength difference (PLD). Do the same for the passenger seat (the PLD should be fairly similar to that of the driver's seat). For two seat judging you want as small a PLD as you can get. So start measuring different locations.

Without a dash and firewall rebuild, my gut tells me you will end up in the kickpanel area.


Now if you can compete in a class with just one seat judging---the above goes out the window (to some extent).

Got ya!! I will try this but i am very much worring about the soundstage and imaging?!!?!?! If i use kickpanels, depth and height would be very low!! Wont they?? I know that when using kickpanels you can achieve a very good width but i dont know if this can replenish the loss to the other judging...

[Andy_Jones]

You can get depth and height from kickpanel speakers. You will have to spend some time with aiming, enclosure design, etc. However, with the exception of rebuilt dashes/firewalls, I can't think of to many successful vehicles using dash mounted mids---for 2 seat judging. You can mount the tweeter in the apillar and cross it over high (above 5khz and potentially higher). At that frequency you are needing to work with intensity and not pathlengths--that can get you some additional height. But in the midbass and midrange area, you need a small PLD--so kick panels are what you will most likely need.


I have dash mounted midrange and tweeters. Both midrange speakers are aimed at the driver's head. I have a PLD difference in the mids of about 11". Without time alighnment it is horrendous from both seats. With time alignment is pretty good from the driver's seat, it is horrendous from the passenger's seat.
With dash mounted midrange drivers you also have to overcome judges listening with their eyes. It isn't something I have had an issue with yet. I have had very good judges, and I have agreed with their comments 100%. But I could easily see it being a problem. It is weird to be in a vehicle and looking directly at a speaker.

I also have assumed in this that you have not moved your seats back a good distance. That could also help you get a smaller PLD.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by Paul

most people aim the tweets (and I guess the mids too) perpendicualr to the windshield.

whoops ... I meant parallel

[Trompy]

Well, i have finished my installation of the TBE and mid, just a few days more to listen how they sound.