Horn placement

[mrkoenig]

Where can I get some info on how to place horns in my little car?
I have an '89 Daihatsu Charade. A putt putt to say the least, but at 40 miles to the gal. I love it!
I never thought I had a problem with image in my car, till I got my ESL's (electrostatic loud speakers) in my house and found out what a real center image is!
Can this be achieved in a car?



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Jim Koenig
WWJD

[johnl]

Wow you can afford electrostatics for your house but drive an '89 Daihatsu Charade. I love stereo people

[mrkoenig]

We are a sick bunch, eh? What's worse is I have more into the tunes in the ride than the car is worth!

As for the ESL's, I got a smoken deal on a set of Innersound Eros', they come as a bi-amp set up with a bass amp included that has a 24db per x-over included. I'm running the panels with a NAD, very sweet!
The only real complaint is the sweet spot is only about 12 to 18" wide. You learn to get over that.

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Jim Koenig
WWJD

[This message has been edited by mrkoenig (edited June 13, 2001).]

[johnl]

Originally posted by mrkoenig:
We are a sick bunch, eh? What's worse is I have more into the tunes in the ride than the car is worth!

As for the ESL's, I got a smoken deal on a set of Innersound Eros', they come as a bi-amp set up with a bass amp included that has a 24db per x-over included. I'm running the panels with a NAD, very sweet!
The only real complaint is the sweet spot is only about 12 to 18" wide. You learn to get over that.



A good set of horns cost more then the car is worth. But then a lot of us here on the board have more money in stereo then car. I'm glad I did my stereo before getting married.

[mrkoenig]

Yes if I had to pay retail for a set of horns that would be true. Jeremy,(FROM THIS FORUM) has a set for around $300.oo. That should be do-able.
It's the placement thing, I'm really sure of. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
Plus I'm not sure if I should keep my Infinity ribbons, for above 10k??

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Jim Koenig
WWJD

[johnl]

Originally posted by mrkoenig:
Yes if I had to pay retail for a set of horns that would be true. Jeremy,(FROM THIS FORUM) has a set for around $300.oo. That should be do-able.
It's the placement thing, I'm really sure of. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
Plus I'm not sure if I should keep my Infinity ribbons, for above 10k??



The general thing to do with car audio horns is to just mount the mofos under the dash. One on each side of the car.

[mrkoenig]

I probably could get that much done. I've built enough boxes and installed enough systems to be able to handle the mechanics of the install.
I am still not sure if they should be angled in and up or what, that's all. Never worked with horns in cars, only in P.A. systems.
Thanks for the input.

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Jim Koenig
WWJD

[Mark Eldridge]

Hey guys!

There are a couple of things that you must pay close attention to when installing the horns. They are critical, and if they aren't addressed, you'll never get the system to image or stage properly.

1. The horns must be on the same plane both horizontally and vertically. That is, they must be at the same height, angle, and flat across the underside of the dash. do not angle them in to the center or outwards towards the sides. The best way to accomplish this is to cut a piece of MDF that can fit under the dash and push the horn mouths up against it. This should put them on the same upward tilt and on the same plane at the mouth. You mah have to modify the dash on one side to place them at the same height. This can be a lot of work, but it's very critical.

2. Do not angle them up so much that you can "see" down the throat. Under dash horns are designed to be used off axis. Basically, you'll wnat the horns pointed somewhere between your knees and your belly. No higher than your belly for sure. If you angle them up too high, you'll have beaming problems from one or both horns, and it will never image properly.

3. Ensure there is a smooth contour from the mouth of the horn to the underside of the dash. Don't let anything hang down in front of the mouth, and don't have a big gap between the edge of the mouth and the dash. Under dash horns are designed to use the dash as part of the horn flare. The dash actually continues the expansion of the horn, allowing it to reproduce lower frequencies and helping to control the dispersion pattern.

4. Use as wide open a grille as you can. Using a tight pattern grille material will limit the low frequency cut off, and can cause problems with the dispersion pattern control.

5. accept that it will take many hours of tuning after installation to fine tune the sound. You'll probably need to use some pieces inside the horn itself. Guide vanes, fiberglass, and other materials can be used to fine tune the dispersion pattern. There's no way for me to detail these tuning techniques here. When you get to that point, we can talk about it. It gets pretty complex, and is different for every system.

6. Make sure you're up on your equalization techniques. Horns are nortorious for sounding honky, nasal, or what ever simply because the installer didn't know how to tune with the EQ. This is the main reason so many people think horns just sound bad. It's not always the horn, but usually an incomplete installation.


Address these things, and you'll be well on your way to a good sounding system using horns.

C-ya!



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Mark Eldridge
Mobile Soundstage Engineering
mblsound@aol.com

[mrkoenig]

Thanks Mark,

I figured if it was easy, everyone would do it.

It looks like it will be a while before I get some horns for my ride, I need a big home amp to run my ESL's.



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Jim Koenig
WWJD

[johnl]

Originally posted by mrkoenig:
Thanks Mark,

I figured if it was easy, everyone would do it.

It looks like it will be a while before I get some horns for my ride, I need a big home amp to run my ESL's.



Horns are very efficient and you won't need that big of an amp to power them. The sound will be totally different then Electro-Statics. Your Infinity Ribbons are planar speakers, like electro-statics, and I have heard a couple of systems with them that sound quite good. You can play with placement and tuning and get them to sound very lifelike with the right mid matched to them.

[mrkoenig]

Yes, the ribbons sound good, but I fear the "sweet spot" is too small. I thought coupled with a set of horns would be the ticket.

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Jim Koenig
WWJD